Anyone Going to Hell?
April 2, 2007 by pistolpete
Dear Pistol Pete -
My question can be found on my blog -
http://journeytothirty.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/i-know-im-going-to-hell/
Yours Truly, Shamelessly plugging
Dear Shameless -
The post you directed me to was a very well written description of your spiritual journey. It raises a lot of questions. I’ll simply respond to what I want to respond to and, beyond this, I recommend you visit two sites I find spiritually refreshing. The Wood Between the Woods is written by a former (I think) Catholic who seems to have a vital relationship with Jesus. Martha, Martha is written by someone who still has a blast out of Mass and the compassion of Christ.
You ask about going to Hell. Let me respond with my journey.
I grew up in a church that talked a lot about Hell. At a young age, they “scared the Hell out of me” and I came forward to profess my faith in Christ and be baptised. I left that church when they basically held my parents’ divorce against me (or so it seemed) and I ”lapsed in faith” (or so they tell me).
I found, though, that something was missing. I didn’t so much miss church people as I missed what I found in church in spite of the people. Strange as it seems, I really had found Christ when I asked him into my heart. After a lot of twists and turns, I found my way back to a church (one where I get to do most of the talking) and am happy to say I’ve rediscovered (maybe for the first time) “the joy of my salvation.”
Now, back to Hell. As a Biblical Christian, I can’t dismiss the plain truth that Hell exists (and not just “hell on earth” - like the hell of watching reality shows). Rather than look down at Hell, I prefer to first look up to Heaven.
The poet John Donne wrote –
“True joy is the nearest which we have of heaven, it is the treasure of the soul, and therefore should be kept in a safe place, and nothing in this world is safe to place it in.”
I’m no theological expert (though I play one in cyberspace), but I’ve come to believe true joy is found in a relationship with Jesus Christ.
So, my spiritual prescription for you to have a “get out of Hell pass free” is this -
1) Ask Jesus to come into your heart. This may sound hokey, but hey this is my prescription, so I can sound as hokey as I want.
2) Read some of the Bible each day. It’s more than a religious rule-book. It God’s living Word that breathes life into us. Since I’m into shameless plugs as much as you are, you might start with a daily devotion like “God4today”.
3) Find some people you respect who have what I would call “a relationship with Christ” and meet with them regularly. Church may not be the place for you to start (though, I would recommend it eventually - as a pastor, it’s good for business).
I may not have exactly answered your questions, but you’ve given me the chance to rehearse my sermon. It’s basically this - Jesus went through hell and back so we wouldn’t have to.
His forever,
Pistol
Good advice. One point I’d like to make though. I get the impression from Nicole, that she may not be ready to take step 1 above (but if I’m wrong Nicole, it is good advice). I know it took me a while when I started my search. To me it always sounded HOKEY. But I would suggest asking God to help YOU find the answers that He ALREADY KNOWS that you need to make your decision. Do your homework, search for your answers, talk to people you trust, avoid those people that seem over-the-top for or against on the topic (extremists).
You also mentioned some specific questions you used to ask that you did not get satisfactory answers for. There are some VERY good resources out there that talk about specific context of the various books of the Bible. If you want a decent Bible to study from, I would suggest an NASB Life Application study Bible. The NASB is one of the more accurate (most are VERY accurate but may take some liberties with translations of some key topics) translations and the Life Application notes give great context, history, and application information.
If you have some Christian friends, ask them who you could talk to that has some Biblical education and that they TRUST. There is a lot of misinformation and bad thinking out there. I was lucky enough to be able to pose my questions to my pastor and two other men that were currently taking classes at a Christian university.
Also, join that Bible study you were invited to. Tell them up front that you are not a Christian but that you want to learn more about Christianity. They will learn as much from you as you learn from them.
Good luck Nicole, and keep us posted.
The Pistol fires back: Couldn’t agree more. I’m not big into church adjectives (but in this case I’ll make an exception). An fearlessly-searching, God-led, Word-based, Spirit-inspired quest is just what the Dr. orders. If this doesn’t work, start over. As with recovery, sometimes you have to go back to step #1 when you get stuck in a later step. For instance, don’t let the lack of a spiritually nourishing faith community keep you from looking within yourself, turning back to God for guidance, reading His Word, and seeking out another faith fellowship/church. Worked for me (and everyone knows, next to Christ, I’m the model & pinnacle of success).
Pistol,
A humble and a very thoughtful answer.
Thanks,
The Pistol fires back: That means a lot coming from you. For those of you who don’t know, Dr. X is my pscyhological/spiritual guru (something like Socrates was to Plato, Paul was to Timothy & Abbott was to Costello).
Pistol,
I agree wholeheartedly with your advice on #2 and #3. I have a few issues with #1, so much so that I wrote a post about it a week or two ago, but who really cares what I think?
I also love Pete Meravich. I had his instructional videos when I was a kid, but no amount of instruction and practice could make up for my severe lack of natural ability.
Thanks,
Bill
The Pistol fires back - I’m glad #2 & #3 hit the nail on your head. As for #1, I care what you think & I commend your post - http://billphillips.wordpress.com We all need to be reminded to repent and believe the good news (that is the essence of Christ’s good news). Repentance is a rather weighty theological term, but simply put - it means to stop running from God and turn around to let God catch up. In my recovery from addiction, this meant to give up substances/behaviors/attitudes so God could help me “come clean”. Excellent point. Keep up the good blogging.
As for the real Pistol Pete, about the only similarity between him & me is that we were both skinny.
Can’t go to hell if you don’t believe in it.
The Pistol fires back: Interesting observation. My 3-year-old might say (if she could talk) that there is no heat coming from the stove until she sticks her head in and finds out. Contrary to popular reasoning, it isn’t just that seeing is believing what exists, but also that believing is seeing things as they truly are - beyond our reasoning.
Thanks for the response. Interesting stuff.
The Pistol fires back: Thank you for the faith-provoking question. As your website implies, you are certainly into self-exploration. I would ask, though, what crisis are you trying to avoid? That’s my question back to you.
okay…so here’s some thoughts…and the rest, like answering the question “what crisis are you trying to avoid” I’ll answer over on my own blog because it’s a good question and it’s one that I’ve been asked a number of times since starting my own blog a few months ago.
underdahill - you are 100% correct, I don’t think that I’m ready to take step #1.
Step #1 does sound very HOKEY to me. And to be honest, I kinda just don’t get the whole asking Jesus to come into my heart thing. It’s a bit too abstract for me right now. I need something much more concrete. I like the idea of reading from the Bible. It would help obviously if I had a Bible, which maybe, I’ll look into getting.
That’s all for now. Thanks.
The Pistol fires back: I look forward to reading your “crisis” post. I really like your ability to be self-reflective (a trait many Christians lack). In fact, I hope you don’t mind, but I’ve added your blog to my “Referrals” under “Self-Reflective Therapy”.
As for a Bible, there are many (maybe too many) good ones. underdahill recommends one. I would recommend the Zondervan NIV Study Bible (for 3 main reasons -it’s a faithful translation, it has helpful notes, and it’s cheap - you can get it through Amazon under $20). One more thing, I wouldn’t start in the “rules & regulations” sections of the Old Testament or some of Paul’s letters, but the “relationship with Christ” stories of the Gospels (I especially like Luke). Happy reading.
Hell is a very interesting concept, particularly when you consider that in terms of the Christian bible there was no concept of Hell until the New Testament.
I certainly have faith that there is a God. There is too much coincidence to suggest that the Divine doesn’t exist.
As to a Hell and whose going there - maybe the discussion should be “Is there an afterlife” and “where are you headed after this life?”
M
The Pistol fires back: First, I’m honored that someone as technologically savvy would visit my post. I bow before your PC. Second, I’ll leave it up to better theological minds than mine to debate the concept of Hell prior to the writings known to Christians as “The New Testament”. Finally, my belief in the afterlife is secure, based on the foundation of Scripture. The Apostle Paul writes - “If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.” (1 Corinthians 15:13-14). I’m sure a lot of what I do is useless, but I’d hate to add my preaching & faith to the list.
Good thoughts everyone…I’ve enjoyed reading the thread.
I found underdahill and nicolemarie’s response to #1 - “Ask Jesus into your heart” interesting. I first heard the phrase when I was a kid and somehow grasped the idea that Jesus wanted me to let him into my life. Now that I’m older the concept does seem really “HOKEY” as you say. Kind of hard to relate to as an adult.
Pistol - I love your tone, full of grace and mercy. Glad I stumbled across your blog I’ll have to check in often.
The Pistol fires back - Thanks for the kind words. I’m glad you stumbled across my blog as well. Just don’t sue me for any damage it may have done to your virtual body.
[...] the Hell?! I’ve been reading Pistolpete’s blog post titled ‘Anyone going to hell?‘, and a few others on the belief of a literal or metaphoric bible, the nature of faith, and [...]
The Pistol fires back: I’m looking at my response screen and just seeing a bunch of strange characters. What could this mean? Hmmmmm? Shall we say: S-A-T-A-N ? Anyway, there’s a good reflection on Satan at the URL listed above (assuming “you know who” lets it go through).
Here’s an interesting post on Hell that I came across.
http://whateverisgood.blogspot.com/2007/01/hell.html
The Pistol fires back: That post does look very interesting & thorough. What is most interesting is how someone could cram 53 foot notes into a blog post. Thanks for weighing in.
I can’t believe anyone takes hell literally as a real physical place. Allegorically, it’s the place for sinners, and that place is in one’s heart and mind. As I said before, one must believe in hell to go there. If one has a set of beliefs concerning how to live one’s life, and violates those beliefs, then that is hell, and all the hell there is. As you’ve said here, you don’t look down to hell, but up to heaven, but that is certainly not literal. If such things existed, they would neither be up or down. Oh, I can’t deny they exist entirely, as belief is a powerful creative force. I still find it hard to believe that people still follow the mythologies of church and state that were created to keep people in line, to control their behavior, keeping them obedient to the state and church, and not incidentally giving their lives and money to both. Interesting too, that people believe first, then assume that everything about the universe they don’t know is the proof of their faith. I have faith. I believe people can learn to live together in harmony. I believe I am god, you are god, the universe is god, everything and nothing is god. There is more to the universe than we can can comprehend, but that does not prove the existence of an intelligence behind it. The chaos and randomness of the universe, and our lives seem to prove the opposite, but there is also order in chaos. The order could be construed to be god. It’s all semantics. It is fortunate that people have the intelligence to question faith-based living and seek out answers. Perhaps someday we will come to a more thorough understanding of the principles of the universe, and realize it is far more complicated and simple than religion would have us believe. If there is malevolence in the universe, it is our insistence that that we must believe in a supreme being, when we are all a part of each other, and a part of the universe. No need for a supreme being, no need for heaven or hell or devils. We have each other.
The Pistol fires back: If, as you say, I am god, we are all in a heap of trouble. I can’t remember the exact quote from Shakespeare (maybe one of our readers can help me out), but it goes something like, “There is much more to life than we dream of in all our petty philosophies.”
I agree with Shakespeare 100%
In a past life before I took up Economics, I was Sunday School teacher who started a class for the dozen 20-somethings who me and another guy had brought into the Church. It was baptism by fire for an awkward uncharismatic man (me).
I really started from scratch. I threw out the Christianese I’d picked up since my conversion. I prayed to be able to help these young people (90% of my class were either new Christians or non-Christians).
90% of my focus was getting them to understand God and Jesus. 10% of my focus was spent on seeing where they fit in with this personal infinite God. I think about half the class left convinced Christianity was wrong/evil and about half grew to deeper faith.
The Pistol fires back: Sounds like you planted some good seeds. Not all will bear fruit, but your faithfulness will, in the end, prevail.
If you want to put both your mind & your heart into reasoning about “hell”, and to see what Scripture (old and new testaments) say about it, this book (free, available online), would be a decent place in which to start: http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/
It’s best to let God show us what are the traditions of man, and what is His heart, on any issue.
Another website worth perusing regarding both salvation and eschatology (& NOT like you think!), is http://www.pantelism.com
Shalom, Dena